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AP Score Analysis
Okay...sorry it took so long but this was a difficult task. Below my ramblings here, you will see my overall analysis and observations by school and course, based on the information I could ascertain by begging, borrowing, and bribing for scores. If I don't mention a course, either it wasn't offered at that school or I was unable to conclude an analysis. Now to get other items out of the way.
- I really don't understand, but I do accept, the "blanking" out of the scores for the public where students individual scores may be realized. However, to "blank" out the scores for the board members is absolutely ludicrous, especially when we have received the scores as confidential documents, unmodified, in previous years. This is definitely a hard pill to swallow. How am I as a board member suppose to make informed decisions or evaluate the superintendent on his performance if I don't know his performance? This brings to mind a case I've reviewed recently...King vs. Ambellan (just one of many on this same topic). Although this case was decided in New York, it does set a precedence, not to mention it is quoted in many, many other cases since. In this case, the majority of the board instructed the superintendent that the requesting board member be denied access to the records he requested involving a project funded by the school district. The requesting member sued for access, and the court granted him access.
"A member of a Board of Education has broad supervisory responsibility over the expenditure of district funds and the efficiency of the school system. He is elected to act upon behalf of the people and to do this he must have full information concerning the whole operation ....
The Court is of the opinion that the majority members of the Board of Education may not, by resolution or otherwise, restrict this right of every board member to be fully acquainted with the records and business of the district."I'm still pondering this one.
- Isn't it ironic that when it comes to AP scores it is stated "test scores aren't everything, it's the experience of taking the course" yet when it comes to HSA's and meeting AYP, test scores are EVERYTHING.
OVERALL OBSERVATIONS
What can we conclude from this? Very little due to the lack of TOTAL information and we would need a couple of years to really show a trend. But here are my opinions.
- The disparity of courses offered amongst the high schools is vast. I would like to encourage and hope that we can utilize some of our new technology to offer courses, in danger of being cancelled due to low enrollment at one high school, via the television or web in order for all students to have the same opportunity.
- The percentage of AP enrollment actually tested has continued to creep up through the years. Yeah!!! We went from 87.4% last year to 88.8% this year.
- When enrollment went down, scores generally went up. I would think that if enrollment decreased and scores decreased...there might be a problem that needs further consideration.
- Some courses, across all high schools, went down in enrollment and scores. Big potential problem, possibly with the curriculum.
- Classes where enrollment increased and scores increased...kudos! Congratulations! Thank you! That's what we want. Students interested in the course and involved in active learning and retention of information.
LACKEY
- Calculus AB - tested down; scores down
- English Lang & Comp - tested up; scores down
- English Lit & Comp - tested avg.; scores up
- European History - tested down; scores avg.
- Music Theory - tested down; scores up
- Psychology - tested avg.;scores up
- US History - tested down; scores up
LAPLATA
- Biology - tested up; scores up
- Calculus AB - tested up; scores down
- Chemistry - tested up; scores down
- English Lang & Comp - tested up; scores down
- English Lit & Comp - tested down.; scores down
- Environmental Science - tested down; scores down
- European History - tested avg; scores way down
- Govt. & Politics Comp - tested up; score down
- Govt. & Politics US - tested up; score down
- History of Art - tested up; score avg
- Music Theory - tested down; scores down
- Physics B - tested up; scores up
MCDONOUGH
- Biology - tested up; scores up
- Calculus AB - tested down; scores up
- Chemistry - tested down; scores up
- English Lang & Comp - tested down; scores down
- English Lit & Comp - tested up.; scores down
- Environmental Science - tested down; scores down
- European History - tested down; scores avg
- Govt. & Politics Comp - tested up; score avg
- Govt. & Politics US - tested up; score up
- Music Theory - tested down; scores up
- Physics B - tested up; scores up
- Physics C Elec. & Magnet - tested way down; scores up
- Physics C Mechanics - tested way down; scores up
- Psychology - tested up; scores way down
- Spanish Language - tested way up; scores way down
STONE
- Biology - tested up; scores up
- Calculus AB - tested way up; scores avg
- Chemistry - tested up; scores way down
- English Lang & Comp - tested down; scores up
- English Lit & Comp - tested up.; scores down
- Environmental Science - tested up; scores down
- European History - tested up; scores down
- Human Geography - tested up; scores way down
- Music Theory - tested avg; scores down
- Physics B - tested up; scores down
- Psychology - tested avg; scores way down
WESTLAKE
- Biology - tested down; scores down
- Calculus AB - tested avg; scores down
- Chemistry - tested down; scores up
- Computer Science A - tested up; scores down
- English Lang & Comp - tested up; scores up
- English Lit & Comp - tested up.; scores down
- Environmental Science - tested down; scores down
- European History - tested down; scores down
- Govt. & Politics Comp - tested up; score up
- Govt. & Politics US - tested avg; score up
- History of Art - tested down; scores up
- Music Theory - tested down; scores up
- Psychology - tested up; scores up
NORTH POINT
- First year
35 comments:
Mrs. Abell:
Can you post the info on the lawsuit that you referred to?
Regarding the up/down in the AP course analysis. Were these changes statistically significant?
It only makes sense that if enrollment goes down, by and large, it's students that do not belong in the classes anyway.
Planning, intellect, decision about going to a four-year institution, etcetera certainly are factored into a student's decision as to whether or not to take an AP class.
I see more and more school systems and colleges are looking into the "AP bandwagon" and investigating it's local innards.
The schools are not happy, seeing more and more colleges not accepting the AP score, as in some schools, there is no equating the material learned in the high school (i.e. AP Physics) versus being in a lecture hall with 50% Indian kids, 30% Asian kids, and a blathering of others, all of which are competing for an A.
My kid says that most of the AP classes that he took in Chuck County are a joke compared to the classes that he is taking at UPenn.
Thanks
AP Scores
I agree that trend analysis will come into major play in the coming years. Right now these numbers tell us very little about the state in which our AP program is in, since there is no reference point except comparison across schools.
The only comparison you can and will be able to make is/will be using the SAT.
Having the kids take the SAT who were in AP courses - how they scored (and break in down by category now with the expanded SAT) and match that with their AP courses (where applicable/if applicable). Then compare those SAT scores against kids NOT in AP courses- again, broken down by the expanded SAT categories and match as close as possible to THEIR high school curriculum.
Now you have something to monitor and go back to the schools and teachers and curriculums (lesson plans) right away (after first year figures are available) and say, hey, this works, this does not and this stays and this goes.
Oh, but first we have to get the kids to take the SATs...never mind.
anonymous said,
"Right now these numbers tell us very little about the state in which our AP program is in, since there is no reference point except comparison across schools."
Truthfully, comparing schools tells you little. You would have to look at too many other factors i.e. experience of the teacher, test scores (other than AP) and demographics of each group of students, etc. There is little validity to comparing different groups of students whether between schools, school systems, even year to year. Every group and every year is unique unto itself.
(different anonymous
The schools are not happy, seeing more and more colleges not accepting the AP score.
To an extent that is about money in the form of less tuition for AP credit.
Comparing SAT scores between students in AP classes and not in AP classes doesn't prove anything. The students in AP classes are naturally self-selected or placed in their by their schools for their academic potential. SAT/AP comparison is unnecessary and pointless.
"....based on the information I could ascertain by begging, borrowing, and bribing for scores.
#1 I would like to know how you "bribed" people to give you these scores?
#2 How did you possibly come to the conclusion that when enrollment went down scores rose? You said you didn't have previous years data, school by school, class by class breakdowns? And overall, enrollment rose in AP so what data are you going off of exactly?
Anonymous of 12/6, 3:34pm.
#1 - the words used, "begged, borrowed, and bribed" were used to show that attaining the information was not easy to get. It was not to be taken literally. I believe the majority of my readers understood.]
#2 - If you look in the original post it states "especially when we have received the scores as confidential documents, unmodified, in previous years."
Ms Abell,
Why is there such a fascination with AP courses in this county? It appears to me that the material taught still does not adequately prepare many of Chuck County's kids for the next level...As a previous posted wrote, the content is a joke. Why is there not a true College Prep curriculum being offered in ANY school here in the county? I believe there is a real opportunity to do great things with a system this size. What appears to be missing is REAL LEADERSHIP and VISION from the person responsible for running the system. When will the board realize that it's time for a change at the top? For those of us who have been off "the island" known as SoMD, we know that this system approach is antiquated in many ways. How can the head guy run around talking about how digitally advanced we are when the academics are not up par? We need to be less concerned about building schools that we don't have money to build, and focus on building a curriculum (pre-k to 12) that adequately prepares our students to compete in a global environment. I sense that that would please many frustrated parents, teachers and students who want better. What do you think?
don in hughesville
stop building schools? then the next thing you will hear are that class sizes are too high. Why can't you build new schools at the same time as you are building curiculum?
Walking and chewing gum isn't that difficult. At the least, I think we should expect our officials to be abel to both keep class sizes down by building new schools or stop new students from migrating into chuck county and still provide a quality education.
Anonymous
I want schools built as well. However, we can't build schools at the rate needed because the money is not there to do it. Our county tax base is built on real estate and retail. There is no commercial industry locally that generates enough tax revenue. We don't have industry like Howard or Montgomery to boost our tax base. CCBOE is proposing to build a $100M school. The ENTIRE state budget for school construction annually is around $300M-$400M. Our share of that for the ENTIRE county is less than $10M...Please do the math and tell me where the money will come from. The overcrowding issue could be solved in the short term (as we find money to build schools) with innovative scheduling and use of the current facilities...It just requires a paradigm shift at central office. I have spoken to many teachers and parents who support flexible scheduling...especially at the high school level.
As far as stopping people from coming....the last time I checked, this was still America. People are free to move about as they choose.
"Why is there such a fascination with AP courses in this county? "
Because a complete idiot like Jay Matthews is perverting logic, allowing these high schools to post propaganda on their marquees like "Newsweek rated our school in the top 10% of the nation".
I am sick of these lies, when the bottom line is:
1) They allow any kid that can pee in a pot to take these AP classes.
2) An "idiots logic" is used to say this makes the AP program successful. Can I say BUL___T!!!
It's no wonder the administration wants to hide the piss-poor results of these tests. Let's just say that we have an awful school system and it needs to be rebuilt.
Teachers teaching straight from the book...If a student asks them to do something that they don't have a solution guide to, that can't do it.
Incompetence. This is why Richmond doesn't want parents in the schools.
I say to Jennifer: Please bring up that we need to allow professionals to observe these teachers in the science and math classrooms to see if these people know what they are doing. If they don't (and I know some that have been around since the dawn of dirt) know what they are doing, kick the damned incompetents out on their can.
How about allowing mathematicians, physicists, chemists, etc. into these classes.
Are they just a bunch of lame woosies that are afraid of the total "EMBARRASMENT" that would be brought to these schools?
Get rid of this hideous, unfair, communistic "two 45 minute visits per quarter".
Parents want to observe some of these outrageous teachers.
Roberta Wise, get your lame butt in to observe these teachers. Report back to the public what you find, and then take action to get rid of these lame idiots that continue to have talented and bright students scoring 1.6's on AP exams because the TEACHER HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!!!!!!!!!
They don't know the material, and lead departments and allow mediocrity and don't care about damaging the academic paths of these students. We should declare a math and science emergency in this county!
"As far as stopping people from coming....the last time I checked, this was still America. People are free to move about as they choose."
People can't move here with their kids if the commissioners stop granting up to 600 residential building permits a year. They will have no home to move into. Yes, this year building permits are way under due to the economy. In previous years the school system has face 700 plus new students — that's a problem and almost a new high school. \
The current policy allows for 600 a year, lets say half those residents have just one kid, that's 300 new students every year.
So, yes, stopping people from coming here by not granting 600 building permits for houses a year is the way to go.
Anonymous
"So, yes, stopping people from coming here by not granting 600 building permits for houses a year is the way to go."
Great argument...if it were not for the fact the resales of homes account for FAR MORE of an influx of new students than new homes.
The growth does not seem to be the issue as how the growth was handled. This county's leadership apparently buried its collective head in the sand while the county grew and grew.
You and I appear to be on the same page in terms of wanting better schools. The citizens of Chuck County have to become MUCH more vocal in taking our elected leaders to task. They bank on the fact that only a few of us will actually stand up and challenge what's happening.
Cowboy....
I like your fire! Are you able to come to a Board meeting and speak at Public Forum?
Cowboy, what do you think about removing Richmond?
Don & Cowboy,
It sounds like you two are saying the same thing, just in different languages. Now where do we go from here. It's one thing to say we are overcrowded, etc. but what is a possible solution. The children move here, we have to provide an education. Anyone have a magic mirror or crystal ball?
Cowboy said "Teachers teaching straight from the book...If a student asks them to do something that they don't have a solution guide to, that can't do it.
Incompetence."
On what personal, first-hand knowledge or observation are you basing this statement?
Jennifer...
As far as solutions go, I have heard talk of all year schooling and flex scheduling to maximize building use. THIS IS A SHORT TERM SOLUTION. What harm can come in trying it? We have to find a different approach other than waiting around for money that will not come any time soon. It does not take a degree in finance to know that it would cost a lot less to expand hours of operation at the schools than it would to build schools (WITH MONEY THAT WE DON'T HAVE). This is a successful stop gap measure that has worked in the short term in other places. The long term, more difficult solution is to diversify and expand the local economy so that our county's revenues increase.
Jenifer said in this thread,
"Isn't it ironic that when it comes to AP scores it is stated "test scores aren't everything, it's the experience of taking the course" yet when it comes to HSA's and meeting AYP, test scores are EVERYTHING."
It's not at all ironic. HSA's passing the HSA's is a graduation requirement. A.P. exams are optional. A student who does not earn a 3 or higher on an AP exam has not jeopardized anything with regard to graduation or their future.
Edit to say Passing the HSA's...That's what happens when you try to change your original wording of a post in middle of typing it.
Anonymous,
I can't seem to be able to get to the actual legal document electronically because I don;t have subscription, however I do have a hard copy. If you would like to email me, I can mail you a copy. If you want to try searching for yourself the information is below.
Gerald K. King vs. Fred Ambellan, 3/19/58, Supreme Court of New York, 12 Misc. 2d 333; 173 N.Y.S.2d 98; 1958 N.Y. Misc. LEXIS 3674
AP Teachers...There was a question early about AP teachers receiving extra pay but I can't seem to locate which thread that was in so I'll answer here.
Charles County AP teachers do NOT receive extra pay, benefits or planning periods for teaching an AP course. Hope this helps!
Just learned ... there are some AP teachers that do have extra planning. It is varied throughout the system between schools.
Jennifer...
Why not let the community college professors/teachers handle AP instruction?
Don,
I would venture to assume that it is because of the shear number of teachers required and the cost involved. I will certainly ask though to verify. Thanks for the input.
Don,
I think that allowing CSM to handle AP instruction, especially in the sciences, is an excellent idea.
You have people that at least have a master's degree in the subject area that they are teaching.
We don't have that luxury in Chucky County, where most have the old "watered down" degrees in education. Getting these degrees online is a thorough digusting act, IMO. They should have to compete with three or four hundred students in a university setting to prove they can actually hack this stuff.
Heck, look at the supervisors. Find me one ( and maybe I'm wrong) that have either graduate or terminal degrees in science or mathematics.
Then, travel to Fairfax, Montgomery, Private schools in D.C., and other schools in the country and look at the people that supervise the teachers. They actually have graduate degrees or better in both the subject area as well as an educational degree.
But, we must not be too eager to put them over at CSM. Most of the science and math programs in the county have gone to hell, so beginning with earlier science and math classes, these kids are destroyed with basically remedial work from the get go.
What you would get is professors complaining that these kids are ill-prepared to actually try to master the material in some of the AP classes. That's when it would get interesting.
You should, but may not have, a mutiny on your hands, having a "call from professors" to have the damned programs unearthed and have competent teachers teaching the material and having bozo teachers that don't know the material removed from the classes.
As well as having the curriculum and the idots that write it sent to Siberia for an extended vacation.
Do a google on the internet and look for university professors and their opinions on the AP classes and their worthiness as substitutes for entry-level college courses.
I think that you'll find that many are disgusted with the science and math side of the AP program and the allowance of schools to pass kids that score "1's" and "2's" on the AP tests.
It's utter BS that our schools are passing kids on their report cards, then turning them loose to do a kamikaze act and blow up the AP test that they've wasted 9 months "being taught the material" in the CCBOE classroom. LOW AP SCORE DOES NOT EQUAL A "C" AVERAGE ON THE REPORT CARD. CAN YOU SMELL STENCH?
THAT IS DECEIVING THE STUDENT, PARENT, AS WELL AS THE AP PROGRAM.
"Truthfully, comparing schools tells you little. You would have to look at too many other factors i.e. experience of the teacher, test scores (other than AP) and demographics of each group of students, etc. There is little validity to comparing different groups of students whether between schools, school systems, even year to year. Every group and every year is unique unto itself."
I don't know if you are smoking lefty-lucky's here, but please give me a break.
Many, many, many families move out of this county BECAUSE the crappy AP scores, average SAT scores, as well as the inability to send their kid to a good private school.
CC schools do not compare to a decent school system. Even around good old D.C., our scores are piss-poor when compared to Montgomery County, Howard County, Fairfax County...
To say that you can't compare schools systems is to admit that you've been brainwashed, pure and simple.
As an employer, people are compared on their performance, district offices are compared to their performance, and companies are compared to their performance.
Despite all the rhetoric we hear from the school board and the administration, I'm not convinced that there is a DEEP commitment to building a high quality school system. Look at the school board...politics of personal agenda reigns. You've got people who don't even believe in public education firmly entrenched on the board. Look at the administration...they run around promoting THEME schools they have no money to build...focusing less on curriculum, discipline, teacher retention, etc. Then when anyone actually filters through the BS they serve up and has the stones to question what's going on, they will paint you as being against education. They are still employing 1950s and 60s approaches to education. The sad part is that if the system truly focused on content and strength of curriculum, then we may get closer to becoming an elite system in the state.
To say that you can't compare schools systems is to admit that you've been brainwashed, pure and simple.
As an employer, people are compared on their performance, district offices are compared to their performance, and companies are compared to their performance.
How much experience do you have teaching? It would seem that the answer is obviously none.
What you are doing is the equivalent of requiring a doctor to have X% fewer patient deaths from one year to the next or that a dentist will be evaluated on how many fewer cavities their patients have compared to another Dentist.
Your ignorance of the teaching profession is clear. Spend a couple years in the classroom then come back and share your observations. Until then please refrain from stating your opinions as though they are facts.
Your ignorance of the teaching profession is clear. Spend a couple years in the classroom then come back and share your observations.
Anonymous...You are right about ignorance in this neck of the woods....THAT'S ONE THING THAT THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF HERE IN CHUCK COUNTY.
People don't know the facts...yet what they have heard second hand or the anecdote they repeat becomes gospel...Case and point...I was at what has been deemed one of the "most dangerous schools in the county" today. Guess What? after SEVERAL hours in the building, I observed clean, empty, quite hallways...students were actually in class learning! It was just like any other NORMAL high school I've ever been to. Yet the local yocals will swear this school is a warzone!
"Your ignorance of the teaching profession is clear. Spend a couple years in the classroom then come back and share your observations. Until then please refrain from stating your opinions as though they are facts."
Well, there is no disputing the fact that many of these teachers are obtaining their degrees or graduate credits online. This is a perverted way of avoiding the rigorous and competitive environment of the university classroom.
Thankfully, a concerned person posted the AP scores. You tell me.
Are the parents of students of Charles County Students getting results for the high taxes that they are paying and the outrageously high salary of Mr. Richmond?
It's very disturbing that students are scoring a 40% on AP exams.
2 out of 5? Across the board I may add. What should be done? We can't afford to have bright and talented students mincing the AP exams to bits. Do you actually think that a major 4 year university looks at a grade transcript, compares a "B" or "A" with a 1.5 or 2 on the comparable AP exam, and doesn't split a gut laughing?
This goes against the lowest level of common sense, and has to pre-date the Neanderthal man.
Should we continue to have the same bunch continue to teach these AP classes? If so, why, WHY!????
Your mind is obviously made up. You have no clue as to what you are talking about so any further discussion is a waste of time.
Look at the scores posted in a previous blog entry.
How could anyone defend those? Are you? There is absolutely nothing to celebrate with mean scores that are basically "2's" in all categories.
One of my huge points of contention is that there are way too many ill-equipped students allowed to be in these AP classes. The liberals are pushing to have just anyone allowed to take these classes, justifying that by blowing their horn about the huge numbers. That is not what competition is all about. Not every kid is college-bound, nor should they be. These classes should only be used to allow students the opportunity to obtain college credit before their freshman year, and in this day and age, saving their parent gobs of money. I don't know about you, but I pay for a $50,000+ school for my kid. To me, every penny that goes to these AP classes should not be wasted on "2.0" scores.
Honors classes are the ones that students should be learning "above grade level" material.
Even the talented teachers instructing the AP classes are having their classes affected by kids that shouldn't be 100 yards within the classroom. The Washington Post and Newsweek play this game of allowing "just anybody" to take an AP class.
However, intellectually slower kids slow down AP classes, putting pressure on teachers to slow the pace down to accommodate these students, hence affecting a teacher's ability to get through the curriculum for the class. The end result is the test-taker bombing the exam because they either did not have a chance to cover all the material, or that some of the material was rushed through.
The taxpayers should not be footing the bill for students to take these AP exams. If the parents want their kids to take them, have the parents pay for the classes.
I say that with these type of scores, it is time to revamp the logistics of this program, set the bar much higher for students to take these classes, and to only allow teachers with a degree in the subject matter and have these teachers recommended by nomination to teach the AP classes. I believe that you would then see the AP scores coming from "down under" to more respectable scores. I think that we should involve the scientific community in the science and math AP classes. I also am a firm believer that engineers, physicists, and the like could certainly give feedback to the BOE as to whether a teacher knows the material well enough to teach the class. They should be allow on a frequent basis to observe the classes, noting the teacher's knowledge of the material. AP teachers should know the subject years beyond the level that they are teaching. It's a joke to allow them to teach a class when they have no idea as to what lies ahead AFTER the material being taught. What kind of lousy wisdom is that?
It is a well-known fact that our country is lagging far behind others and is continually loosing ground in the science and math classes in even the best of schools. Look at the number of HB-1 visas that are issued due to the fact that we cannot supply enough engineers for the U.S. workforce. This is largely due to the "feel good" educrats that don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, and use these stupid and time wasting manipulatives early on, destroying many student's ability to think abstractly.
We should quit the BS that a teacher must be "certified" by the state. What a load.
I say hire people in the scientific community that have retired from their tech jobs, allowing them to come in and teach the advanced classes. And, get the unqualified kids out of these classes.
You'll find that behavior will become less of a problem, and the teacher will be able to stay with the pace required to allow students to begin to score well on the exam.
Also, do yearly reviews on AP instructors. If their classes consistently score low on the exam, hand the class off to a more qualified teacher that knows the material, hence, saving the taxpayers (bosses) their hard-earned money.
Another year of AP scores down the toilet.
I say get rid of the AP program altogether. The taxpayers are paying for these teachers to instruct the students, and the results are horrid.
We can't even compete with St. Mary's County, let alone Fairfax and Montgomery County.
It is no wonder that high-tech firms are not moving to Charles County. What the hell do we have to brag about when we send gobs of students to CSM that are forced to take remedial English and math in order to prepare for college classes?
OK, so we need someone new at the helm to clean out the bottom of the barrel and start at ground zero.
Drunken sailors and morons can only interpret the scores and "dream" that we are somehow achieving and competing with the rest of the world. Here in Charles County we have losers, both on the teaching side, and illiterate students being misled by teachers into believing that they are passing an AP class but yet blow the hell out of the test.
Who can be to blame? The knuckleheads that sit on their hands all day, too frightened and complacent to actually do something about this mess.
I reiterate: These classes are to be used as a tool to allow students to place in higher level college classes, hence saving time in the path along the way to obtaining a four-year degree.
Jennifer, please meet with Richmond and have him do something with these lousy teachers who obtain 1's and 2's out of their students. Some of these students are great kids, and have the IQ to do well. But, they are led throughout the year in thinking that they are learning what is needed to obtain a good score, but then fail miserably when the scores are sent out.
These core supervisors of English, Math, and Science should be threatened with the loss of their jobs. It has been years that these hicks have been allowed to put blinders on in regard to these lousy scores. We should demand that they all resign.
It's just plain bullshit that this has dragged on for years. Can't we demand they get out?
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